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A beautiful part of southeastern Pennsylvania Fans of the World Series Champion Philadelphia Phillies   December 9, 2008   CHARLESTOWN TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION GREAT VALLEY MIDDLE SCHOOL, 7:30 P.M. December 9, 2008 Present: Andy Motel, Chairman, Mike Allen, Vice Chairman, June Gorman, Wendy Leland, Rick Reis, Surender Kohli, Tom Comitta, Linda Csete and those on the attached list. Call to Order: 7:30 P.M. Announcements Mrs. Leland said that she met with John Mosteller of Dewey Homes and spoke to HARB co-chair Rosemary Philips about the historical inventory of the Quigley structures at Spring Oaks. The HARB wants Dale Frens to perform the inventory, and has asked Mr. Mosteller to contact Mr. Frens to determine what level of detail is required. Mrs. Leland also indicated that the HARB will want to review possible historic structures at the Holy Ascension Antiochian Orthodox Church property. Mr. Motel said he would contact church officials and ask them to get in touch with the HARB. Mr. Motel announced that Planning Commission member Michael Churchill is absent because he's receiving the Andrew Hamilton Award from the Philadelphia Bar Association this evening. The Planning Commission extended their congratulations. Approval November 11, 2008 Minutes Mr. Motel asked if there are any corrections or changes to be made to the November 11 2008 minutes. Mr. Reis said the fifth line under "Street Right-of-Way Width" on page 3 should read " travel lane and 8 feet for the parking lane" instead of ." travel lane and 8 feet for the sidewalk." With this change, Mrs. Leland moved to approve the November 11, 2008 minutes, and Mrs. Gorman seconded. Mr. Motel called for discussion, and there being none, called the vote. All were in favor. Review Blue Howell Properties Christian Wynne was present to discuss a sketch plan for a two-lot subdivision on a 3.94 acre property on Howell Road in which one of the lots would be slightly under the 80,000 sq. ft. net lot area requirement. He requested feedback from the Planning Commission as to whether the Township would support a future application to the Zoning Hearing Board for a variance from this requirement. Mr. Wynne said he first intended to build a large single home on the lot but in recognition of the changing real estate market now plans to build a smaller cottage style home and seeks a two lot subdivision. Mr. Wynne addressed comments on Mr. Theurkauf's review memorandum dated 12/9/08. With regard to item #1, which indicates that the site doesn't have sufficient net lot area for two lots, he said he's considered acquiring a small piece of land from one of the abutting neighbors in order to meet the minimum lot size, but the Armstrong property doesn't avail itself since the house is already encroaching on their side yard setback. He said he's had difficulty contacting the other neighbor. With regard to item #2, the need to minimize disturbance of the mature native hardwood forest, Mr. Wynne said he would build toward the front of the lots and preserve as many trees as possible. Item #3 stated that the Horse-Shoe Trail, which runs along the top of the ridge on the parcel, should be preserved or safely re-aligned if impacted by development. Mr. Motel said his initial reaction to the request for support of a variance is negative. He said the Planning Commission's duty is to look at the Township as a whole, and must be concerned with setting a precedent. He said a rational and compelling argument would be needed to consider a variance from the 80,000 net lot area requirement and he doesn't see that as the case here. Mrs. Gorman asked what size homes Mr. Wynne is considering. He said in the range of 3,500 to 3,700 square feet rather than the 6,700-7,000 square foot home he initially planned. A smaller home would be more affordable, marketed in the $900,000 range. Mrs. Leland asked what is across the street. Mr. Wynne said there's a small subdivision with several similarly styled stucco homes, which Mr. Allen identified as the Zeigler subdivision with homes in the 7,000 square foot range. Mr. Motel asked if Mr. Wynne's lot was the former Duncan home, now considered to be a teardown, and Mr. Wynne said yes. Mr. Motel asked for each Planning Commission member to comment. Mrs. Leland agreed with Mr. Motel, that the 80,000 square foot minimum should be adhered to. Mr. Allen agreed, saying that although he was in favor of the smaller houses, the minimum lot size requirement is the greater issue. He said a single family home doesn't pay for itself with regard to the cost of services it requires, and therefore there's a point where the Township just has to say no. Mr. Reis agreed with Mr. Motel's concern about setting a precedent. Mrs. Gorman said she shares Mr. Allen's opinion on the smaller houses but not at the expense of setting a precedent. Mr. Motel said even if Mr. Wynne donated a permanent easement for the Horse-Shoe Trail, it wouldn't be compelling enough for him to support the creation of a non-conforming lot. Mr. Wynne said he would be willing to give an easement in exchange for the extra lot, and indicated he can meet all the setback requirements and would be willing to do considerable landscaping. Mr. Allen asked about Note #3 on the plans, which states that "the property may be subject to the rights of others." Mr. Kohli said this was standard language, which Mr. Motel said acts as a disclaimer prior to fully engineering the plans. Mr. Reis asked if there's a possibility of Mr. Wynne acquiring some land from the Calabrese property. Mr. Wynne said the mother recently passed away and he's had difficulty locating the son to discuss it. Mr. Wynne said he would be willing to entertain it, however, indicating that the Calabrese property is 2.7 acres and would have square footage available. Mr. Motel moved to recommend against the request for a variance from the minimum net lot size of 80,000 square feet, and Mrs. Leland seconded. Mr. Motel called for discussion, and there being nothing additional, called the vote. All were in favor. Update Design Review Committee Mr. Allen said the DRC wished to provide a further update on the Spring Oaks TND currently under their review. Tim Townes, David Sanders, John Mosteller and Eric Schrock were present for the discussion. Since the 11/11/08 PC meeting, Dewey Homes updated the Site Layout Plan based on comments from that meeting and discussions in subsequent DRC meetings. The revised sketch plan dated 12/9/08 was displayed alongside the previous plan shown on 11/11/08. Roads, Alleys and Street Parking Mr. Allen said a big issue was parking and street widths. They changed the street width to 27' to include two 10' travel lanes and one 7' parking lane. Street parking locations were revised to improve safety. He asked about the parking along the entrance road off Rees Road, which varies from the left side of the road, then right, then left again. Mr. Sanders said that due to the front-loaded houses, the one parking area was flipped to keep it away from those units. He added that this design is shown in the traffic manual as a calming method. Roads without parking will have a street width of 20' consisting of two 10' travel lanes. Mr. Motel asked if the parking would be marked, and Mr. Allen said they're still considering whether to mark it with small tick lines or leave it without. Other features pointed out by Mr. Allen included: The street right-of-ways will vary from 40' to 47', but Mr. Sanders said that should be changed to 40' to 46'. Mr. Allen indicated that alleys will remain at 16'. The street in the northeast corner was realigned to include a little bend in the road to provide visual variety. Bulbouts were added to all streets that include parking. The alley turnaround in Northwest corner of site was removed and made into a connecting alley to the parallel roadway. Mr. Motel said this has a smoother look. The turnaround in the Southeast corner was redesigned to shorten the road length and to avoid steep slopes, although a trail remains in the slopes. Isolated parking spaces throughout the plan were removed as being unnecessary. Mr. Motel said he likes the spaces shown near the tot lot. The amount of parking spaces is well within the ordinance requirements. Mr. Reis asked if the square in the northeastern area of the site is practical. It was more circular in the previous plan. Mr. Motel said the square makes it easier to park. Mr. Allen said it also helps with traffic calming, but suggested the corners be slightly rounded off. Mr. Comitta said the square was Mr. Philips' suggestion, and gave an example of a similar one in Cape May. Green Space Mr. Motel asked about the green areas now shown on the four corners of the roundabout. Mrs. Leland said this appears to have replaced parking. Mr. Mosteller said the roundabout width was reduced from 24' to 20' for calming purposes, which also added to the green areas. Mr. Motel asked about an adjacent strip of land, which Mr. Mosteller said is open space and should be shown in green. Mr. Motel asked what the area marked #14 near the .8 acre recreation area will be, and Mr. Mosteller indicated that will also be a green area. Mrs. Gorman said there's only a small triangle of green space in the townhouse area near Devault Foods and this is not enough. Mr. Mosteller said the Spring Oaks tract has steep slopes in that area and the abutting property is more level. He wants to work with Mr. Fillippo on providing green space on that property. Mr. Comitta said the triangle could be enlarged by relocating an adjacent twin house. Mr. Mosteller said he'll look at this again, taking scale into consideration. Sidewalks Mr. Allen said the sidewalks will remain at 5', but the width of the grass strip between cartway and sidewalk will need to vary from 3' to 5' depending on the layout. Specific changes will be addressed later. Mr. Mosteller said the sidewalks will be highlighted in the next sketch. He said the grass strip on the main road will definitely be 5', but for the smaller roads, they will want to reduce some to 3'. He said it can be difficult to plant trees in a 3' strip, but in some cases they can be planted in the yards instead. Mr. Allen indicated that the sidewalks would be located on both sides of all streets as required by the ordinance. Housing Layouts Mr. Allen said that the housing layout in the Northeast corner was reconfigured to improve traffic flow and to provide additional variety to the overall site design. The residential layout in Southeast corner was changed to avoid steep slopes. Monuments Mrs. Leland asked what the black dots shown throughout the plan represent. Mr. Comitta said they will be gateway features. He offered to circulate pictures of similar 24-28" square stone monuments, about 4' in height. Mr. Motel said he liked the idea of monuments. Trails Mr. Comitta asked Mr. Sanders about the area in the southeastern portion of the plan where a hammerhead turnaround was probably shown. Mr. Allen indicated that connecting/additional trails were added on the Eastern side of the site. Bike Lanes Mr. Allen said that if bike lanes are on streets they must be 8' wide, so none are planned on the residential roadways except for one formal lane that will be roughly parallel to Whitehorse road as required by the Ordinance. Links to Fillippo Tracts Mr. Motel said the townhouses along the Fillippo property need more green space. Mr. Mosteller said they will provide berms and landscaping. Active Recreation Mr. Allen said the active recreation playfield along Rees Road has yet to be addressed and must be done so carefully. He's concerned about attracting excessive outside use and feels there shouldn't be a large playing field. There was some discussion on the desirability of outside use. Mrs. Leland said the field at Charlestown Hunt outside their clubhouse is used by the soccer club for practice. Mr. Kuhn said there wouldn't be a way for the Township to enforce usage. Ordinance Change Mr. Allen said one change that should be considered when the Planning Commission revises the TND ordinance next year is the width of the grass strip from 5' to a variable width of 3' to 5'. Mr. Motel said there were other errors and changes to be made to the ordinance that were noted last year, and likely there will be others as they go through this process. He suggested addressing them toward the end of the first quarter of next year. Mr. Allen agreed, but said he doesn't want timing to inhibit the process with Dewey Homes. Waiver Requests: Mr. Allen said two waiver requests to be considered are the road radius changes from 150' to 100'+/- at several locations and the elimination of the tangent requirement at reverse curves at several locations. Conditional Use Requests Mr. Allen said they've discussed two conditional use requests. One is for construction activity in a high ground water area, and the other for construction in steep slopes. Under Review for future Discussion Mr. Allen noted several other items to be resolved in future discussions, including: Variations to building setbacks Greater diversity of house types on certain blocks Driveway designs for width and setbacks Stormwater to be contained in either detention/retention basins or in infiltration beds throughout development Next Steps Mr. Motel asked for the timeline in getting the historical inventory report from Dale Frens. Mr. Mosteller said he'll work out the scope of the project with Mr. Frens. Mr. Motel asked if the applicant has spoken to representatives at the Turnpike Commission about the slip ramp construction. Mr. Schrock said both the Turnpike Commission and PennDOT, which has its own road improvement project, are waiting for NPDES permit approval from the DEP. Mr. Comitta suggested that in January, the DRC group should visit nearby TND's and look at their civic areas. Several Planning Commission members indicated they would like to join. Mr. Allen said the sketch plan process is a reiterative one and the applicant is getting close to a final sketch. Mr. Schrock said they anticipate presenting a final sketch plan for approval at the January meeting. Mr. Mosteller thanked the members of the DRC, including Mr. Allen, Mr. Philips and Mr. Comitta, saying it's been a pleasure to work with them on this project. He asked that if Planning Commission members think of anything else for them to consider for the revised plan to contact Mr. Allen prior to the next meeting. Mr. Motel said he'd like to address offsite connections next time, and Mr. Allen said they'll need a lot of time at the meeting. Respectfully submitted, Linda M. Csete Planning Commission Secretary   Home      Site Overview      Contact Us Please report any problems with this site by clicking here. Site development, maintenance and funding by Township resident Jacob D. Merriwether. Hosting by PLH Worldgroup Communications, Inc.