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A beautiful part of southeastern Pennsylvania Fans of the World Series Champion Philadelphia Phillies   July 8, 2008   CHARLESTOWN TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION GREAT VALLEY MIDDLE SCHOOL, 7:30 P.M. July 8, 2008 Present: Andy Motel, Chairman, Mike Allen, Vice Chairman, Sarah Peck, Rick Reis, Tom Comitta, Surender S. Kohli, P.E., and Linda Csete. Also present: Tim Townes, Eric Schrock, John Mosteller and David Sanders, P.E. Call to Order: 7:40 P.M. Announcements - none Approval June 10, 2008 Minutes Mr. Motel asked if there are any corrections or changes to be made to the June 10, 2008 minutes. There being none, Mr. Allen moved to approve the June 10, 2008 minutes, and Mr. Reis seconded. Mr. Motel called for discussion, and there being none, called the vote. All were in favor. Discussion TND District Ordinance Amendments Mr. Allen said after discussing the amendments to the TND Ordinance Exhibits C, D, E, and the Zoning Map with the Supervisors last night, it was decided to postpone setting a hearing date to allow for additional amendments that may be needed as the Design Review Committee's work with the Spring Oaks applicants continues. Zoning Ordinance Amendments to Open Space Provisions Mr. Allen said that the hearing to consider the zoning ordinance amendments relating to open space was opened last night at the Board of Supervisors' meeting. The review letter from the County Planning Commission triggered further discussion on percentage of open space with historic resource properties and various other concerns. The Board has asked the Planning Commission to revisit the issues discussed and the ordinance was not passed. Budget Issues Mr. Motel said that in consideration of budget constraints this year, the above ordinance amendments are not critical and can wait until the fall. Mr. Comitta agreed that in view of the present slowdown in applications before the Township, holding off on these amendments should present no problem. Review Lighting Standards in the TND Mr. Allen said he met yesterday with a representative of Spring City Lighting to see what products they have available for traffic light upgrades for PennDOT's Route 29 improvement project. He said he was impressed with the company, which is PennDOT approved, and their representative will contact PennDOT to find out specifically which sign standards they want. Presently there are 22 standards, but some are redundant and will be removed. Spring City Lighting will provide a cost estimate per intersection for their "Washington" style posts. Mr. Motel said he checked the signal poles on Route 100 in Exton, which are just the standard poles painted black, and said they're not bad looking. Mr. Allen said PennDOT will paint them for $600.00 each. The painted poles might be a less expensive option for some of the less visually critical intersections. Mr. Allen said he contacted Rob Prophet of Traffic Planning & Design to obtain PennDOT's bidding deadline so Charlestown can get their specifications to them beforehand. Spring Oaks Traditional Neighborhood Development Plan Tim Townes, John Mosteller, Eric Schrock and David Sanders, P.E. were present to discuss their most recent site plan for Spring Oaks in the Devault TND, which is presently in review with the Design Review Committee (DRC). DRC member Mike Allen gave an overview of the plan, which is the second revision. He said the committee is pleased with the entrance design, including the amount of green space and incorporation of stormwater management, including two ponds. The plan now shows a roundabout for the two main roads, which operates with four-way stop signs, and has been proven in other developments to create a slow, even traffic flow. Mr. Allen pointed out areas for monuments at the sides of other intersections in the development. He said there are four basic housing types, including large singles, smaller singles, twins and townhouses. Some of the housing types are more segregated, but the "main street" has a mix of units. Mr. Allen said the plan needs a walking link for the townhouses near the large crescent-shaped green to access it. He's also concerned with the grading for the green, which slopes about 10-12 feet from north to south. Mr. Schrock said this translates to a 6% slope. Mr. Allen said they want to avoid the situation seen in Eagleview, where the green is not as usable due to its slope. He said some parking should possibly be added to the east of the green. Mr. Allen said the existing barn will be restored and used as part of the recreation center, noting that the parking area at the barn should be doubled. The existing pool will be removed, and a new community pool added. Mr. Mosteller said the barn has a good stone foundation, making it attractive for the reuse. Mr. Motel asked if Dale Frens had performed his historic resource assessment yet of all the buildings, and Mr. Allen said no, but it will be done. Mr. Allen said the HARB toured the structures and would like to see the house and spring house preserved. He said he stressed to them the importance of providing viable uses for the house if they wanted the applicants to consider saving it. Mr. Mosteller said the house had no special architectural features. He is willing to move it and any of the other outbuildings at no charge for any interested party. Mr. Allen said he had an issue with the link to the higher elevation Fillippo parcel to the south. He said the houses lining this street should have two fronts so the street doesn't have the look of an alleyway. The link is made more difficult because of the existing pipeline bisecting the two parcels. Mr. Allen said the DRC had concerns over the group of houses located near the eastern end of the site near Rees Road, which are situated in a large field. They would prefer more of this area to remain open. He said the rears of these houses should have the appearance of fronts to Rees Road. Ms. Peck said that when the adjacent Whitehorse at Charlestown development was built, the township required berms and buffering from Rees Road, suggesting that Spring Oaks consider the same. Mr. Mosteller said one resident had concerns about screening, but there is already a large buffer in place. Mr. Townes said the previous Spring Oaks plan including buffering, but that was for an office park design including a three story building. Mr. Motel agreed this was a more abrupt transition from the residential Whitehorse at Charlestown, but it can still be considered. Ms. Peck said the residents will still want some additional screening. Mr. Comitta said this revised plan incorporated 99% of the comments made at the June 2nd DRC meeting. He had the following comments on a few items not included: There is a possible need for rear vehicular access out of the area west of the main road. As the plan is fine-tuned, the DRC has asked the applicant to look at the lot areas to see if any can be shrunk to provide more green space. He also suggested they look at "sweetheart cottages", which are smaller units on smaller lots. Consider moving the access point onto Whitehorse Road to the north. This may allow more room for a mail pavilion, additional parking, and more open space for the recreation center. Mr. Schrock noted that he met with the Malvern Postmaster about mail delivery, and they will require cluster boxes for the twin and townhouse units. The singles will have curbside delivery. Ms. Peck noted that black cluster boxes look much better than the standard ones. The turning radii at the roundabout and loop roads appear to be sufficient. Look further into alleyscapes, pocket park design, the graded crescent green, and consider adding white picket fences in some areas. Move the crescent green space to the east so it will be more level and can include two terraces. Have one pocket park as a play area and the other an area with a gazebo and benches near the civic area, such as the one at Weatherstone. Mr. Motel said he likes the park area outside the library at Weatherstone even though he doesn't care for gazebos in general. He liked the idea of shifting the entrance road to the east. Mr. Comitta said the gazebo should be prominently located as a selling point, noting that strategically placed art helps sell TNDs. Ms. Peck said she thinks functionality would sell more. Mr. Motel suggested using the feature to tie into the retail center in Area 2 so it can be seen from the municipal building. Mr. Motel asked about the northern end of the site. Mr. Mosteller said they don't know yet what, if anything, can be done there because of the wetlands. Mr. Motel asked about the corner by Devault Foods. Mr. Mosteller said this area is steep, with the least attractive sight lines, in view of Devault Foods, the communications tower and the turnpike. Mr. Schrock said it will probably be used for stormwater management. Mr. Allen said the DRC wants to work on the link from Spring Oaks to the retail area. Mr. Schrock distributed a sketch made by Perry Morgan that shows the interconnection. Mr. Allen said it doesn't flow well, to which Mr. Mosteller agreed. Mr. Motel said this transition area is the greatest challenge, partly due to the road configuration, and asked the applicants to give thought to the safety of pedestrian movement from Spring Oaks to Area 2, especially when crossing Whitehorse Road, to access future recreation facilities. Mr. Reis asked if the farmhouse is removed, would it make sense to move the recreation center back, closer to the houses. Mr. Mosteller said there are soil problems there. Mr. Motel said he'd do the opposite, move it closer to Area 2 to open it up to the broader area community. Mr. Allen suggested removing the bottom portion of the circle at the northern end of the site that serves a set of single houses. There was general agreement that this would be a good idea, opening up the area. Mr. Motel asked for Mr. Mosteller's opinion of the sweetheart cottages. He responded that he has marketing concerns given the Spring Oaks location. Ms. Peck said it wouldn't be practical, causing some sacrifice in density. Mr. Allen disagreed, saying quality building can keep the price points up. Mr. Comitta asked if any granny flats are planned, and Mr. Mosteller said yes, as an option over the garage. Mr. Motel thanked the group for attending this evening. Mr. Mosteller said they feel they're making good progress working with the DRC. Mr. Allen agreed they're working well together. Mr. Mosteller said their next step is to work on flow patterns, parking, and general layout as discussed this evening. After approval, they'll work on the linking elements, and finally, the architectural design leading to preliminary plan submission. Ms. Peck asked for their timeframe. Mr. Mosteller said even in the difficult market, they hope to start construction and initiate sales efforts in the Spring of 2010. Mr. Schrock said they'll be looking for sketch plan approval in September and will return to the Planning Commission at that time. Crosswalks and Directional Arrows Mr. Comitta distributed four sheets showing examples of various crosswalk designs. The first sheet is already part of the TND Ordinance Exhibit B. Sheets 2-4 are additional crosswalk examples for the Planning Commission to consider adding. He pointed out the "piano key" style, which is more visible and desirable to PennDOT, although it must meet their striping standards and is more expensive to install. He suggested the commissioners think about the options and make a decision in September. Mr. Motel said he likes the zebra and piano key design. Mr. Motel asked about mixing crosswalk styles. Mr. Comitta said this can be done, as those on Morehall Road need to be more pronounced, whereas in the development itself, pavers might be more desirable. Mr. Townes said unit pavers cause problems, particularly if routinely traveled, such as in a shopping center. He prefers dyed concrete, which looks like brick, but the color goes all the way through the material. If it's chipped, it's not noticeable. The cost is the same as paver bricks and is less labor intensive to install. Mr. Schrock offered to forward pictures of this material from Sunnybrook Village in Pottstown. Traffic Signs Mr. Comitta distributed material on traffic signs, including excerpts from West Chester Borough's "Wayfinding Elements", which his firm developed. This document explains the state of the art in signage. Mr. Comitta said he took the pictures on pages 1-6 of the "Banners" document, including Times Square in New York, the busiest intersection in the country with a zebra crosswalk pattern. He said he spoke with PennDOT for acceptable standards when developing the Wayfinding Master Plan. He also included a set of actual construction drawings and PennDOT's handbook of approved signs. He said if the Township follows their nomenclature, PennDOT can be satisfied, even permitting alternative background colors. To specify sign types to PennDOT, the Township must use their model numbers, but colors and graphics are flexible. The Secretary suggested considering the Township logo colors and font, as it will be used for other signage in the Township outside the TND, including historical interpretative signs currently being developed. Mr. Comitta said the Planning Commission needs to determine which signs are needed, probably between three and eight sign types, to take to PennDOT. Ms. Peck asked if he works with a good local sign company, and Mr. Comitta named Steve Pinkston & Others. He also suggested looking at Kunda Signs on Rt. 202 just past Henderson Road near Norristown, which does PennDOT work and allows visits to their facility, showing every possible sign. Mr. Allen said the PennDOT signs are all flat panel, rectangular signs and asked if there are any options other than selecting colors and fonts. Ms. Peck said PennDOT allows framing and extruded panels. Mr. Comitta said entering West Chester, PennDOT permitted a monument box with an array of signs. Mr. Townes said the signs on the state roads are owned and maintained by PennDOT and they have to have immediate access to replacement signs. Ms. Peck asked if the Township can take responsibility for the signage. Mr. Allen said he's waiting to hear back from Rob Prophet with regard to when PennDOT needs the Township's input on light standards, crosswalks, signs and striping. Mr. Motel suggested giving the contact information to Mr. Comitta to check on the deadline and provide guidance to the Planning Commission. August 12, 2008 Meeting The Planning Commission cancelled its meeting scheduled for August 12, 2008. The next meeting will be held on September 9, 2008, 7:30 P.M. at the Great Valley Middle School, Room 154. Adjournment: The meeting was adjourned at 9:35 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Linda M. Csete Planning Commission Secretary   Home      Site Overview      Contact Us Please report any problems with this site by clicking here. Site development, maintenance and funding by Township resident Jacob D. Merriwether. Hosting by PLH Worldgroup Communications, Inc.