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A beautiful part of southeastern Pennsylvania Fans of the World Series Champion Philadelphia Phillies   April 08, 2008   CHARLESTOWN TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISSION GREAT VALLEY MIDDLE SCHOOL, 7:30 P.M. April 08, 2008 Present: Andy Motel, Chairman, Mike Allen, Vice Chairman, Sarah Peck, June Gorman, Rick Reis, Tom Comitta, Linda Csete and those on the attached list. Call to Order: 7:35 P.M. Announcements Mr. Allen announced that both the Traditional Neighborhood Development Ordinance and revision to the Net Lot Area Definition were passed by the Supervisors at last night's meeting. Mr. Motel reminded everyone that the Township's Earth Day roadside clean up event is scheduled for Saturday, April 19th, meeting at 9:00 AM at the Township office, and that he will be participating. Approval March 11, 2008 Minutes Mr. Motel asked if there are any corrections or changes to be made to the March 11, 2008 minutes. There were no changes. Mr. Reis moved to approve the March 11, 2008 minutes, and Mr. Allen seconded. Mr. Motel called for discussion, and there being none, called the vote. All were in favor. Design Review Committee Mr. Allen gave an update on the newly formed Design Review Committee, consisting of himself, Charlie Philips, and Tom Comitta. Their first meeting will be held tomorrow morning at 8:30 A.M. at the Township Office. He noted they have been advised by the Solicitor that the meetings must be advertised in accordance with the Sunshine Law. Review George Meyer Sketch Plan for 6 lots on 23 acres, 2227 Bodine Road Brett MacKay, P.E. of Chester Valley Engineers and George Meyer were present to discuss Mr. Meyer's sketch plan for a subdivision of his 23 acre property on Bodine & Seven Oaks Roads. Mr. MacKay displayed three sketch plans as follows: Sketch #1: the five new lots are served by a cul-de-sac road off Seven Oaks Road. This is a cluster plan with open space acreage of 9.71 acres. Sketch #2: shows three lots accessed from a shared driveway off Seven Oaks Road, and the other three, including Mr. Meyer's home, accessed from a shared driveway off Bodine Road. This is a cluster plan. Sketch #3: shows three lots accessed from a shared driveway off Seven Oaks Road, and the other three, including Mr. Meyer's home, accessed from a shared driveway off Bodine Road. This is a conventional lot plan, which would require conditional use approval. Mr. Motel asked if the pipeline was netted out from the open space calculations, and Mr. MacKay said no. Mr. Allen said this must be netted out. Mr. Motel asked why a cul de sac road wouldn't work directly across from Foster Road on Bodine. Mr. MacKay said they wanted to keep the northern portion of the tract open. Mr. Meyer added that the road would need to be longer, it would be close to his existing house, and would be more visible from the road. Ms. Peck agreed that a 4-way stop intersection at Bodine & Foster Roads gave a suburban feel to the plan, whereas the cul-de-sac road in Sketch #1 is more tucked away and hidden. Mr. MacKay said they were concerned about the size of the lots on the two cluster plans. After accommodating stormwater recharge, septic and wells, there wouldn't be much space left over. He said he met with Ed Theurkauf, who suggested the configuration in sketch #2. Stormwater management could be handled through berming and in-ground beds. Mr. Motel said sketch #2 has less impervious surface than sketch #1 too, noting that he didn't want a big cul-de-sac bulb. Mr. Allen said the difference in impervious coverage is actually not that bad for sketch #1, being approximately 13,000 sq. ft. compared to 10,800 sq. ft. for sketch #2. Mr. Allen said he'd like to see a link between the two separate roads in sketch #2 so as not to create two separate neighborhoods. He suggested a sidewalk or path. Mr. MacKay added that with pavers on each side, the link could also provide emergency access. Mr. Motel said he liked the roads in sketch #2 as opposed to a cul-de-sac, and the linkage would create a nice walking area. Resident David Melich asked if the lot sizes are the same in sketch #1 and #2. Mr. MacKay said they're a little large on sketch #2, for a total of about 5,000 sq. ft. additional. Mr. Melich said his neighbor Tom McClure expressed concern that the homes in a cluster plan would have less value than those in a conventional plan. Mr. Motel said this doesn't bear out when comparing the side by side developments of the Highlands (conventional) and Ashwood (cluster) on Pikeland Road. With regard to sketch #3, Mr. Motel said he doesn't care for it as much as sketch #2. Mr. Reis said he likes the first sketch, with the one single road, even though it's a cul-de-sac. The road could have a planting island with stormwater recharge underneath. He doesn't want the road crossing the electric lines/pipeline. Mr. Motel asked if there have been any problems with the teardrop shaped cul de sac at the Highlands, and Mr. Allen said he hasn't seen any. Ms. Peck suggests using a rolled curb, adding that the cul-de-sac on sketch #1 provides more of a sense of community to the development. Mr. Allen said he likes the single road plan for that reason, but added he doesn't object to the second sketch if the two roads are connected. He said he understands why a connection to Foster isn't desirable. Mrs. Gorman said she lives on a cul-de-sac, and although they have some problems, they do foster the community. Ms. Peck asked if a rolled curb could be done, and Mr. Comitta said since this requirement is in the SLDO, it can be waived by the Supervisors. Ms. Peck said her preference is sketch #1. Mr. Motel said sketch #3 would require conditional use approval, and said that the first sketch works better for the land. Mr. Meyer said he understands this, but doesn't want to have a homeowners association if it can be avoided, and this would come with either cluster plan. He said all the properties around him are fee simple "farmettes", and he thinks the third sketch would be more marketable. Mr. Motel asked how large the lots are in the third sketch. Mr. Myer said his would be between four and five acres, and the others between two and three. One is as large as five acres. Mr. Motel said one of the ideas behind cluster planning is to avoid the 2 acre waffleboards with their manicured, chemically enhanced lawns, not a pasture-like look. He said the smaller lot owners still have sufficient room for a large enough house, pool, and they have the open space for passive recreation. With regard to homeowners associations, Ms. Peck said she recently learned there may be a DEP law pending that would mandate them for situations like this where there is a stormwater management basin and shared driveway. There was some discussion on the problems with HOAs for small developments. Mr. Meyer asked if the Township would accept dedication of the road, and Mrs. Csete responded they will only do so if it's constructed to township specifications. Mr. Motel said with a rolled curb, they might not consider it. Ms. Peck asked about a large lot plan with deed restricted open space. Mr. Motel said this would still be considered a conventional subdivision and would require conditional use approval. He said the Meyer property has a very rural look along Seven Oaks Road, and with a cluster plan, it could remain so. He said since PECO maintains the land under the electric lines along Seven Oaks, this should just be kept natural. He said the best plan to preserve the natural features of the site is the first one, adding that the existing hedgerows along Bodine are very nice as they are. Ms. Peck said another option with the cul-de-sac plan is to shorten it and lengthen the last three driveways. Mr. Reis asked why there is a gap between lots 1 and 2. Mr. MacKay said pipes will be installed there to run to the basin, and there may be a walking trail there. Mr. Allen had some comments on Mr. Theurkauf's review memorandum dated 4/2/08 as follows: Item #3: Mr. Allen said he doesn't find the increased impervious coverage due to the cul-de-sac option to be as objectionable as Mr. Theurkauf indicates. Mr. Motel added that without the cul-de-sac, an alternative will be needed for stormwater management. Mr. Allen said the County Planning Commission is encouraging underground recharge rather than above-ground basins. Mr. MacKay said they would need more than one underground bed, there would be multiples. They may be a few berms but no above ground basin with the cul-de-sac plan. For the alternate plans, Mr. MacKay said one underground bed can't infiltrate a 100 year storm as required by the ordinance, and Ms. Peck mentioned other problems, such as sinkholes and failure rate. There would have to be an above-ground basin, though it could be landscaped so it doesn't just look like a muddy hole. Item #5.d: Mr. Allen said this comment implies that the Horseshoe Trail must only be accommodated if the subdivision is an open space plan, when it must be accommodated regardless of whether it's an open space or conventional plan. Mr. Motel said he finds either the first or second sketch plan acceptable. Ms. Peck said either would be less costly to the developer than the conventional plan. Mr. Allen said if the cul-de-sac plan is used, he wants a planted teardrop design. Mr. Melich said once this development is done, his will be the last large property in that area of the Township. He has approximately 28-29 acres, part of which he leases out for farming. He said he has difficulty getting a farmer interested in that small area, and feels pressure to develop his property as well or leave. Mr. Motel asked him if he's in the Agricultural Security Area, and Mr. Melich said he wasn't sure. Mr. Melich was concerned about the zip codes for the six parcels. If there are two access roads, the Seven Oaks access road would be addressed Chester Springs and the Bodine access road would be addressed Malvern. Mr. Melich asked Mr. Meyer which plan he preferred. Mr. Meyer said he prefers to be more isolated, though he understands a lot of people prefer a neighborhood. Mr. Motel cautioned him that with a conventional lot plan, the Supervisors may balk. He said the Planning Commission's charge is to look at the Township as a whole. Ms. Peck recommended that the applicant do research into HOAs. If it turns out that an HOA is required because of the road, it may change his preference. Ms. Peck asked why individual driveways aren't being considered, and Mr. Motel said PennDOT would be unlikely to approve them on Seven Oaks Road, and Mr. Allen added it would increase the impervious surface coverage. Mr. Meyer said he'd consider all the comments this evening, and may return with revised plans. Mr. Motel assured him he could have all the time he wants with the Planning Commission. Zoning Map Amendment - TND Mr. Comitta said it was brought to his attention by the solicitor that a parcel owned by the Allevas adjacent to a larger parcel in TND Area 1 is not included in the TND, although the owners were notified of the TND hearing and it's shown on one of the TND ordinance maps. Currently there's a lot line change plan before the Township that would place part of this small parcel with a larger one that is in the TND. There are also several small parcels along Rees Road, including the Smurthwaite property that are shown as being included in the TND. After some discussion, the Planning Commission determined that the small parcels, with the exception of the Smurthwaite parcel, and the Alleva parcel, should be removed from the TND area. Mr. Comitta will review the Smurthwaite issue with the Solicitor. Mr. Townes added that the smaller of the two Tyler Griffin parcels is shown on the map as Farm Residential when it should be included in the TND. After the appropriate changes are determined, the TND ordinance and zoning map will need to be revised accordingly. Proposed Bike & Pedestrian Paths Plan Mr. Comitta said that Exhibit E of the TND Ordinance needs to be revised. Mr. Comitta referred to several emails among the Planning Commission members regarding the placement of bike paths in the TND. Mr. Motel said the main problem is between the new cut through boulevard and the Whitehorse/Morehall Road intersection. It was determined that the plan should show all the bike paths that would be desirable, and use that as a basis to negotiate with the developers. Mr. Motel advised Mr. Comitta not to indicate a specific width for the path on Morehall Road. Mr. Comitta said Perry Morgan will have the revised plan ready later this week. Zoning & SLDO Definitions Mr. Comitta said he prepared a combined set of definitions that runs vertically, and Mrs. Csete prepared another that compares definitions horizontally. His version includes further changes, removing redundancies, and brackets terms that have more than one definition so the preferred definition can be selected. He said Mr. Reis suggested removing references in the definitions to sections of the ordinance as well as references to specific zoning districts. Mrs. Gorman said terms such as "Development Strategy Plan" should be listed as "Plan, Development Strategy" so all the various "Plan" definitions are together, for example. Mr. Comitta suggested forming a subcommittee consisting of himself, Mr. Reis and Mr. Allen, to go through the definitions and address their various concerns. He expects that about 90% of the definitions can be worked out in this fashion. Then, at the May 13th meeting, the remainder of the definitions can be reviewed by the Planning Commission. The subcommittee set up a tentative meeting for May 1st at 7:00 P.M. Other Ordinances and Revisions The Planning Commission discussed other ordinances they may wish to consider, as follows: An ordinance to prohibit plastic bags in retail establishments. Revisit the the Lighting Ordinance, as Mr. Kohli has communicated some concerns that it needs to be tightened review the home occupations, major, minor, and no-impact Wind Power Roof Top Advertising Mrs. Csete said she would poll the PSATS group for wind power and plastic bag ordinances to see what other municipalities may have in place. Adjournment: The meeting was adjourned at 9:45 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Linda M. Csete Planning Commission Secretary   Home      Site Overview      Contact Us Please report any problems with this site by clicking here. Site development, maintenance and funding by Township resident Jacob D. Merriwether. Hosting by PLH Worldgroup Communications, Inc.